topic Re: Mixing FC Target Ports Onboard and Expansion in ONTAP Hardware

Mixing FC Target Ports Onboard and Expansion

erick_moore — Thu, 05 Jun 2025 07:04:49 GMT

We have a 3170 with a single quad port FC expansion card (actually we have 2, one per controller). We have no plans for adding any more than the 2 FC loops already installed (we are going with SAS for all our new shelves), and we don't plan on using more than 2 of the onboard ports per controller as initiators. Our installer configured 2 of the onboard ports as targets along with 2 of the ports in the quad port HBA so we would have loop redundancy in the event we lost a PCI slot. I was just taking the NetApp NCIE-SAN practice exam, and it stated that target ports should never be mixed between the expansion cards and the onboard cards. Any thoughts on this matter?

Re: Mixing FC Target Ports Onboard and Expansion

radek_kubka — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 15:58:05 GMT

Hi Eric,

Have you read this thread?

http://communities.netapp.com/message/7600#7600

Regards,

Radek

Re: Mixing FC Target Ports Onboard and Expansion

erick_moore — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 16:09:58 GMT

I can't get to that link for some reason. It is giving me an access is denied error.

Re: Mixing FC Target Ports Onboard and Expansion

ekashpureff — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 16:10:51 GMT

Eric -

It's my understanding that add on cards are configured at the factory to be initiator or target ports, and can not be re-configured.

Motherboard ports can be reconfigured. This requires a re-boot.

I haven't seen any best practice documents that say you shouldn't use motherboard target ports as well as add on card target ports.

I hope this response has been helpful to you.

At your service,

Eugene E. Kashpureff
ekashp@kashpureff.org
Fastlane NetApp Instructor and Independent Consultant
http://www.fastlaneus.com/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/eugenekashpureff

(P.S. I appreciate points for helpful or correct answers.)

Re: Mixing FC Target Ports Onboard and Expansion

radek_kubka — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 16:33:45 GMT

It's within Partner & Field Community, that's probably why.

This is the bottom line from Skip Shapiro from NetApp:

If any on-board ports are used as targets, you cannot use any expansion target HBAs. All target ports used either either onboard or on expansion cards; you can't use both types together.

However, you can mix onboard ports configured as initiators and initiator expansion HBAs.

Re: Mixing FC Target Ports Onboard and Expansion

scottgelb — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 17:36:29 GMT

There are some rules that are often broken with Initiator/Target and also with Disk/Tape Initiator ports.

NetApp/Partner SEs have an updated fc rules powerpoint in the net2 download and I submitted some edits a while ago...a great document and summary below

1) It is ok to have initiators mixed onboard and expansion slots

2) Expansion cards are hard set as initiator or target, but onboard can be swapped (already mentioned)

3) It is not ok to mix Targets onboard and expansion slots. Either all onboard or all expansion slots for targets

4) It is ok to mix port speeds on the same card or asic

5) You cannot put ports on the same expansion hba ASIC (1a/1b for example) to both disk and tape (1a to disk and 1b to tape for example), but you can put disk on 1a/1b and tape on 1c/1d. However, if onboard ports it is OK (0a disk, 0b tape)... This rule is often broken since it works but is not supported on expansion hbas. (kb22038)

Re: Mixing FC Target Ports Onboard and Expansion

aborzenkov — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:46:56 GMT

Re. 3 – it is not what the latest ppt (edition 4) says:

Can I have target expansion cards installed in the system and still use some of my onboard ports for fibre channel SAN Host connectivity (targets)?

It Depends

7.3.2 or greater – Yes

7.3.1.1 or less - No

Re: Mixing FC Target Ports Onboard and Expansion

scottgelb — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 11:15:26 GMT

I think that needs a fix in the new one.. I don't know of support added in 7.3.2 for on/offboard targets concurrent.. Need to have Bryan fix this one..or clarify if a change was made, but not correct I don't think.

Typos Sent on Blackberry Wireless

Re: Mixing FC Target Ports Onboard and Expansion

aborzenkov — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 13:01:26 GMT

Well, I am afraid it is a bit more complicated ...

7.3.1.1 BSAG:

Considerations

If you install target expansion adapters on the system, you must configure the onboard adapters as

initiators.

7.3.3 BSAG:

The whole paragrah "Consderations" is no more there. The only limitation that is mentioned is total number of target HBAs and the rule that all target adapters must be of the same speed: you cannot mix 2-Gb and 4-Gb adapters on the same system

The presentation mentions this rule only for target expansion cards:

Can I mix expansion target cards in the same system of different speeds (X1130 4G & X1131 8G)? NO

But if the rule of speed mix is for all target HBAs, it means - you can use onboard, as long as speed matches. Given that current HBAs are 8Gb/s, we have no way to mix them

I'd love if someone from NetApp gave final word.

Re: Mixing FC Target Ports Onboard and Expansion

scottgelb — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 15:52:05 GMT

And 8.0.1 rc2 bsag it says you have to unconfigure onboard on an ha pair when adding target adapters... It has always been either all onboard or all expansion target ports without a mix, but the documentation doesn't all match up... I will forward this link to Steve Botkin and he will be able to confirm here.

You are upgrading from a 2-Gb onboard adapter to a 4-Gb target expansion adapter or 4-Gb
onboard adapter to a 8-Gb target expansion adapter. Because you cannot mix 2-Gb and 4-Gb
adapters or 4-Gb and 8-Gb adapters on the same system, or on two systems in an HA pair, you
must set the onboard adapters to unconfigured before installing the target expansion adapter.

Re: Mixing FC Target Ports Onboard and Expansion

sbotkin — Mon, 29 Nov 2010 23:39:18 GMT

The requirements for the mixing of Initators and Targets both onboard ports and HBA's has changed with Data ONTAP 7.3.2.

The mixing of onboard Target cards with Target HBA's is not supported in any version of Data ONTAP before 7.3.2. The supported configurations are documented in the FC & iSCSI Configuration Guide on the NOW site at : https://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/san/fcp_iscsi_config/QuickRef/fc_iscsi_config_guide_72.pdf on page 22. If a Target HBA is installed in a FAS solution running Data ONTAP 7.3.1.1 or LOWER then the onboard ports will have to be all Initiators, none can be used as Target devices.

The mixing of onboard and HBA's for Target's and Initiators has changed, it is supported now with systems running Data ONTAP 7.3.2 or higher. The changes to this are documented in the FC & iSCSI Configuration Guide for Data ONTAP 7.3.2+ which can be found at : https://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/san/fcp_iscsi_config/QuickRef/fc_iscsi_config_guide_73.pdf on page 22. With Data ONTAP 7.3.2 it is possible to have onboard ports configured as targets and to also have target HBA's installed in the controllers. The System Configuration Guide will show the number of Target HBA's that are supported for any FAS solution by choosing Data ONTAP 7.3.2 or higher : http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/hardware/NetApp/syscfg/scdot732/index.htm

The HBA's that are used in the FAS solutions are supported with all of their ports either being Initiator's or Target's, they can NOT be split like the onboard ports on the FAS solutions. The HBA is ordered as either an Initiator or Target HBA. This is a hardware requirement of the HBA's.

The Initiators Targets - The Rules (Edition 4) has the correct information in it for those that have access to the Net2 Document Repository.

Hope this helps...

Steve

Re: Mixing FC Target Ports Onboard and Expansion

aborzenkov — Tue, 30 Nov 2010 06:23:25 GMT

Thank you, but it is still unclear (both in fc_iscsi_config_guide_73.pdf and in presentaion) whether I can mix onboard and expansion card of different speed. Both documents state:

All expansion adapters should be the same speed

So once more direct question - can I mix onboard 4Gb/s target port with expansion 8Gb/s target HBA?

Thank you!

Re: Mixing FC Target Ports Onboard and Expansion

jooss — Tue, 30 Nov 2010 20:21:31 GMT

It's not currently supported to mix the speeds.

Page 38 of the 8.0 FC/iSCSI config guide does document that for the FAS3200:

------

Each 32xx controller supports 4-Gb and 8-Gb FC target expansion adapters. Note that the 8-Gb

expansion adapters cannot be combined with 4-Gb targets (whether using expansion adapters or

onboard).

------

Regarding he BSAG comment:

-----

Considerations

If you install target expansion adapters on the system, you must configure the onboard adapters as

initiators.

-----

This was a left over from when it was not allowed to mix onboard and add-in expansion target ports.

I've marked that and we'll work on getting that straighted out.

We'll also work on getting the statements on the mixing of speeds to be more definitive.

Cheers,

Rick

Re: Mixing FC Target Ports Onboard and Expansion

lmunro_hug — Wed, 06 Jun 2012 20:40:28 GMT

Hi, bit of thread necromancy here… 🙂

I am also studying for the NCIE: SAN and in the practice questions this topic comes up. I think the answers must be based on old data as they say the right answer is the third one down in the screenshot, Is this still correct? If you look at the Fibre Channel and iSCSI Configuration Guide for the Data ONTAP 8.0 page 14 https://library.netapp.com/ecm/ecm_get_file/ECMM1280845 you can see that target ports are supported on both the onboard an expansion ports.

Can anyone from NetApp confirm that the practice test is wrong? Dont want to be marked wrong if something related comes up in the exam.

Thanks

Luke