Data Backup and Recovery Discussions

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SnapManager for Exchange - Snapmirror or SnapVault. can't have both?

Hi All,

 

Briefly my environment:

  > Exchange 2010 SP3 RU2, DAG

  > ONTAP 8.3

  > SnapDrive 7.1

  > SnapManager for Exchange 7.1

  > 2 Offices with a FAS2552 in both offices, SnapMirror relationship from source volumes at one site to the remote site.  additionally a Storage Shelf attached to the FAS2552 at one office, to which we configured SnapVault relationship for both offices

 

My issues is this:

 

For compliance reasons, I need to archive our Exchange data for 7years.   

 

I was told by an netapp Engineer who was workign on my case that SnapManager can only be setup with a SnapMirror destination OR a SnapVault destination, not both.  

 

If both cant be configured with SME, how do I manage an effective DR in case of site loss ie SnapMirror, whilst still maintaining the retention required through SnapVault

 

 

 

My only workable solution at present is to give priority to the Compiance requirement and configure SME with Snapvault.  This gives me a snapshot schedule of max 182 over 7 years (1st & 15th of every month.  Thus my DR solution is limited to the source volume snapshots and these bi-monthly SnapVault copies

 

However, one big problem in relation to retention is that SME only gives me the option for Hourly, Daily, Weekly, Monthly, or Unlimited.  There is no custom period (as far as i can see).  likely "unlimited" would be most appropriate for my 7-yr compliance requirements, however is there a way to truncate/delete snapvault snapshots after those 7 years? I dont want to be in a position in 7yrs time when i have to manually use Cli or System manager to delete Snapshots manually

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

Thanks

Ben

15 REPLIES 15
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Re: SnapManager for Exchange - Snapmirror or SnapVault. can't have both?

We have done something similar to a customer and the way we did it was to arrange a seperate snapvault setup, so use SME to backup and mirror, but then run some poweshell scrpts to trigger seperate snapvaults.

 

it's a little manual and possibly a bit of work with DFM would tidy it up, but it does work and maybe an option for you.

 

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Re: SnapManager for Exchange - Snapmirror or SnapVault. can't have both?


@paulstringfellow wrote:

We have done something similar to a customer and the way we did it was to arrange a seperate snapvault setup, so use SME to backup and mirror, but then run some poweshell scrpts to trigger seperate snapvaults.

 

it's a little manual and possibly a bit of work with DFM would tidy it up, but it does work and maybe an option for you.

 


thanks for the suggestion

 

i'm fairly new to netapp storage so just a question on that setup you implemented:  with regards to the snapvault copies, how does SME read/recover from those snapshots at a later date?

 

eg.

if 1 year down the track i get a compliance request to recover a mailbox/emails for a particular user, how would I use SME to recover that information given that SnapVault is not linked directly to SME?  would I need to use powershell to copy those SnapVault snapshots back to SnapMirror volume.  And if so, assuming SME can read those snapshots automatically once they have been copied (does SME just pick up on the naming convention of the snapshot filename?)

 

 

thanks

Ben



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Re: SnapManager for Exchange - Snapmirror or SnapVault. can't have both?

hi Ben,

 

so the snapvault we setup sits outside of the SME jobs

 

SME runs the backups that mirror across to the DR site, we then schedule a scrip that does the SV jobs.

 

becuase of that they cannot be recovered from within SME, they are done with a SV recovery seperattely.

 

we then present that data to production and either use Exchange recovery tools, or more usually use single mailbox recovery to recover data from the vaulted database.

 

hope that makes sense.

 

regards

Paul.

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Re: SnapManager for Exchange - Snapmirror or SnapVault. can't have both?

Thanks Paul that makes sense then.

 

I'd very much appreciate it if you could share that script with me.  I'd like to implement this setup also

 

could you explain where the script was run from?

and assuming when you say the data is presented to production from snapvault, you mean as a lun via snapdrive also? 

 

 

cheers

Ben

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Re: SnapManager for Exchange - Snapmirror or SnapVault. can't have both?

SnapManager for Exchange 7.1, SnapDrive 7.1.1 and clustered Data ONTAP 8.3 support both SnapMirror and SnapVault replication from the same source, so there really isn't a need for a script.  Setting it up is actuall fairly easy, since we longer rely on DFM integration to achieve the vault relationships.

 

One thing to bring up in regards to SME 7.1 and Exchange 2010, SME 7.1 now requires Winodws Management Framework 4.0 and Exchange 2010 SP3 RU5 or higher.

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Re: SnapManager for Exchange - Snapmirror or SnapVault. can't have both?

That's interesting Andy, is this only supported with CDOT at the backend or does this work with 7mode as well, without the need for a DFM relationship.

 

 

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Re: SnapManager for Exchange - Snapmirror or SnapVault. can't have both?

It only works with cDOT.  Since you stated your ONTAP version is 8.3, and 8.3 is cDOT only, this should work fine.

 

If you have 7-mode system, you can indeed have both SnapMirror and SnapVault set up simultaneously, but it requires DFM to function.

 

I personally prefer the cDOT integration, as it is now much easier to set up. Smiley Happy

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Re: SnapManager for Exchange - Snapmirror or SnapVault. can't have both?

Hi Andy,

 

the netapp support engineer referred me to this big that he said shows that you cannot have both snapmirror and snapvault relationships to the same source:

http://mysupport.netapp.com/NOW/cgi-bin/bol?Type=Detail&Display=837026

 

his verbal explanation to me was that SME 'can't determine what destination to write to' if you have two relationships

 

when i configured both relationships, my SME backups would fail.  admitedly i dont WMF 4.0 or Exchange 2010 SP3 RU5 installed on my servers.  would this specifically cause the backup failures or is it a recommendation that both be the min required ?

 

thanks

Ben

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Re: SnapManager for Exchange - Snapmirror or SnapVault. can't have both?

Hello, Ben.

 

The bug you linked is fixed in SnapDrive 7.1.1, which is currently available.

 

As far as the WMF and Exchange RUs are concernec, the versions i stated (WMF 4.0 and Exchange 2010 SP3 RU5) are absolutely required in order to use SME 7.1 and SDW 7.1.1.  These requirements have been vetted by both NetApp and Microsoft to ensure compatibility.

 

Without the proper minimum Windows/Exchange requirements, SME and SDW can act unpredictably and cause backup failures.  Additionally, having a version of SnapDrive without a fix for the BUG listed will cause the SM/SV step of the backup to fail, thus reporting the entire job as a failure.

 

After upgrading to all the needed versions (SDW 7.1.1, WMF 4.0, Exchange 2010 SP3 RU5 or higher), please let me know if you have any additional questions or problems.

 

Andy

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Re: SnapManager for Exchange - Snapmirror or SnapVault. can't have both?

Wonderful! thanks so much for the guidance Andy.  it might be a week before i can fit in some down time to upgrade my exchange environment to RU5 but i'll definitely come back to you

 

Again thanks to the both of you.  i've been hitting dead ends with netapp engineers and our netapp account rep and his technical team, so this is good news.

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Re: SnapManager for Exchange - Snapmirror or SnapVault. can't have both?

Hi Andy,

 

just querying the installation of WMF 4.0 given the below MS articles states that for Exchange 2010, only WMF 2.0 should be installed.  do you have any further insight with regards to this?

 

older article Re WMF 3.0

http://blogs.technet.com/b/exchange/archive/2012/12/14/windows-management-framework-3-0-on-exchange-2007-and-exchange-2010.aspx

 

more recent article re WMF 4.0

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/powershell/archive/2013/10/25/windows-management-framework-4-0-is-now-available.aspx

 

 

thanks

ben

 

[--EDIT--]

 

actually i read here (https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff728623%28v=exchg.150%29.aspx) that WMF 4.0 is workable with Exchange 2010 SP3 - any RU version, but as it states:

 

"Windows Management Framework 4.0 can be used to perform Windows-related management tasks on a computer that's running Exchange 2010 SP3 RU5 or later. However, Exchange 2010 cmdlets and Exchange 2010 scripts require Windows PowerShell 2.0. Using Exchange 2010 cmdlets and scripts with Windows Management Framework 4.0 isn't supported."

 

so im guessing that anytime i want to run an exchange 2010 PS script, i would need to precursor the script being called with, e.g.:

 

powershell -version 2 .\xyz.ps1

 

 

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Re: SnapManager for Exchange - Snapmirror or SnapVault. can't have both?

You would be correct.  For more information regarding compatibility, you can see the Exchange Supportability Matrix (https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff728623%28v=exchg.150%29.aspx).

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Re: SnapManager for Exchange - Snapmirror or SnapVault. can't have both?

Hi Andy,

 

confirming that post upgrade, both snapvault and snapmirror is working.  thanks again for the advice.

 

Just a couple of points of clarification i wanted to run by you (and others):  

 

 

So within SME, the source volumes now have a relationship with the corresponding SnapVault volumes (shown in the Restore-tab with "Local Backups" and "Archive Backups"), and with the SnapMirror snapshots, which are replicated via our schedule within OnCommand System Manager (or as i understand can be forced to replicate manually via right-click > update Snapmirror, within SnapDrive).  

 

Is this how it should be?  

 

I was wondering whether it's possible in SME GUI, to force the relationship to be between source and SnapMirror volumes, rather than SnapVault; and subsequently having the SnapVault snapshots replicated via System Manager

(... i know it is possible to have a reltionship between source and snapmirror in SME as i had this setup originally - and visually in SME i recall it looks different in the Restore-tab to how it does now that i have the Snapvault relationship setup.  I know the "Archived Backups" tree or snapshots was not present, and i think the icons in the "Local Backups" reflected that there was a snapmirror copy [can't recall exactly])  

 

The reason for this arrangement is so that i can manage the snapshot retention for the Snapvault volumes via System Manager, as it has a much more flexible schedule and policy governing snapshot retention.  ie i can specify the exact number of snapshots i want to keep.  

 

In SME, in the backup job,  if i choose to backup to archive locations it only allows me to either choose daily, weekly, monthly, or unlimited.  which is fine for a SnapMirror relationship as we'd (for example) only need to keep 1 month worth of snapshots as immediate DR fallback.  But for SnapVault, ultimately i need 7 years worth of bi-monthly snapshot archives (for compliance reasons), which equates to 182 snapshots  

 

if it's not possible to make this switch from source>snapvault to source>snapmirror, then is there a solution for managing snapshot copies on the snapvault destination?  Something that would give me more flexibility than between "monthly" and "unlimited"?

 

What happens if i use "unlimited" and the snapshots reach the max 255 limit ? do they truncate the oldest snapshots? or do the snapshots stop ?

 

 

*confused*

ben

 

 

[---EDIT---]

 

also confusing me is the wording in the SME 7.1 Admin guide: on pg 26:

 

"Note: You cannot configure both a SnapMirror relationship and a SnapVault relationship on the same clustered Data ONTAP source volume. You must configure these relationships on different source volumes."

 

does this mean what i've setup above is not possible/recommended? ie there can only be one relationship to the source, so i must choose either SnapMirror or SnapVault backup ?

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Re: SnapManager for Exchange - Snapmirror or SnapVault. can't have both?

Hi all,

 

just another question: can I have Exchange 2010 SP3 CU5 (or later), SME 7.1, SDW 7.1.1 with some DBs on 8.1.4-7mode (snapvault managed by OnCommand Unified Manager) and some DBs on 8.3-Cmode (snapvault managed by cluster-mode ontap policy) ?

Both are supported but my doubt is: are those methods applicable together on the same Exchange like explained above?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Federico

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Re: SnapManager for Exchange - Snapmirror or SnapVault. can't have both?

Just an update for anyone following my issues or who has the same setup and facing the same dilema.

 

i was able to get both SnapMirror and SnapVault working through SME

 

again my environment is this: 

ONTAP 8.3

Installed on the VM:

  SME 7.1

  SnapDrive 7.1

  Data ONTAP DSM 4.1 for Windows MPIO

  Windows Host Utilities 6.0.2

  Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1

  MS Exchange 2010 SP3 RU9

 

Issue1: 

What I found was when I setup the SnapMirror relationship to the source SVM first then setup the SnapVault relationship, SME would not recognise the SnapVault destination.  using the SME Backup Wizard to setup a new backup, the "Archive Backups" step was skipped/not offered.

However, when i remove both SnapMirror and SnapVault relationships and then setup the SnapVault relationship first (followed by the Snapmirror), in the Backup Wizard the SnapMirror option to 'initiate SnapMirror' after backup was no longer offered, but the SnapVault option to 'Archive Backups' step was available.  

 

Solution1:

Consequently the workaround i used was to manually edit the resulting powershell command in the SME scheduled job (which updates the associated Windows Scheduled Tasks job), to include both the '-UpdateMirror' (SnapMirror) flag; in addition to the existing  'ArchiveBackup / -ArchiveBackupRetention' (SnapVault) flags that were created via the Backup Wizard

 

e.g.

new-backup -Server 'DAG01' -ClusterAware  -ManagementGroup 'Weekly' -RetainDays 7 -RetainUtmDays 7 -UpdateMirror  -UseMountPoint  -MountPointDir 'C:\Program Files\NetApp\SnapManager for Exchange\SnapMgrMountPoint' -ArchiveBackup  -ArchivedBackupRetention 'Unlimited'-ActiveDatabaseOnly  -RemoteAdditionalCopyBackup $True -ArchiveRemoteAdditionalCopyBackup -RetainRemoteAdditionalCopyBackupDays 7

 

 

Issue2:

how to set SnapVault rentention to something other than 'Daily','Weekly', 'Monthly', 'Unlimited' which are the only options in the SME backup for archiving to Snapvault destination.  i.e. setting a variable e.g. 200 days

 

Solution2:

i used the native ONTAP policies to defined the retention policy.  this effectively takes precendence over the SME defined rentetion.

this was done by defining the rentention in SME, eg 'Unlimited'.  this label is applied to the snapshot.

In OnCommand System Manager, if you look at the "Protection" menu for the SnapVault SVM, under the 'Policy Details' tab, the SME snapshots will be applied the label of 'Unlimited'.  Consequently, define a retention policy for this label in the SnapVault SVM to limit the number of snapshots to eg 200

 

 

 

i've opened a case with NetApp support to see if there is a bug 

 

 

 

[---EDIT---]

 

the only issue with Solution2 is that the catalogs for the archived backups remain in SME, whenever the snapshots are deleted by anything other than SME.

 

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